My guest today is Patrick Codenys, the founding member of Front 242, 1 of the most influential electronic and industrial groups in music history. Originally from Belgium, Patrick and front 2 42 came to prominence during the eighties and nineties as pioneers of the style called EBM. And as mentioned, they were and are still a profound influence on the electronic experimental and industrial music genres.
Since their inception, the group has recently released a live album. If I’m not mistaken. Is on tour. Again, I’m looking forward to discussing the history of the group, what they’re up to now, as well as the history and the current state of electronic and industrial music with my guest, Patrick Codenys.
Welcome to the RUN GPG podcast. Thank you very much for inviting me. I thought you would send like jingle or something like that. No, no, no. We okay. Done in post production. well, welcome here, Patrick. Yeah. You know, as I was, I was mentioning to you, I was really looking forward to sitting down, with you from a personal perspective.
You know, I, I grew up with Front 242 music. I was telling you an industrial in the industrial music of the nineties. I was a DJ for many years and Front 242 is actually. Still on, on my playlist, but also, the group has been active again. you’re about to go on tour. But there’s also been, as I was telling you, before we started recording here, there’s been a resurgence of these influential groups from the nineties.
You’re making a little bit of a comeback. You know, the tours have been very popular. Front 242 is one of them. What do you think is happening? And what’s inspired the latest tour for you guys and, you know, the most recent live album as. Well, the big difference is, it comes from probably the music market.
, I think that, studio work is not, valuable anymore for a lot of bands. And the technology allows you to really change even the tracks that you had from the past. so for us, the main platform to create became live shows became the stage, the stage got. Lights a sonography. It’s got like a physical feeling of the, the music.
And so, so what we’ve been doing the last years is transforming most of our tracks, including new tracks, also life, because that, like I said, that became really the creative platform for us rather than studio work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, you know, it’s awesome to see because you know, so much of the music we see right now, especially electronic music, it was influenced by so much of what was created back then.
Right. Which I’m sure you agree. You know, we just recently had Goldie, on the show and, you know, UK drum based jungle legend. And what’s interesting about Goldie. We were talking about it. We said. The drum and bass that’s produced now is it sounds the same, just the technology’s a little different, right.
But the music sounds the same when Front 242 started, you know, we were at the beginning of it all, you know, sampling using machines in that way, creating that dark electronic, you know, bass sound. So do you mind taking us back into a little bit of the history? Like what was, you know, how did Front 242 form and what was the Genesis of the group?
Well, you have to know that in Belgium, we don’t have a musician market. Mm. Not like England or, or the north America. So you cannot basically gather with friends and start a band. So most of us were working on our own. So no access to musicians means you replace your drummer by rhythm box, or you will replace your.
Player by a, also a base line machine. So we all were pretty much independent, like very, almost like working isolated. what put us together is actually the music shop where Daniel was working and we were buying our instruments there. And so we started to connect and, I was working with the singer, Jean, Luke.
And so he was looking for a singer and somebody to collaborate. So we gather together and, and. At the studio with Daniel and we, we released the first, the second single actually, because he had an instrumental singer, but the second single human was released under this, association of people. And later Richard came as a performer.
So it’s pretty much individuals that came a little bit from different boards, but that were also entities on their own that decide to go together also. To put the instruments, the, the music instruments together, because at the time it was still quite expensive, not everything, but some, and, we were very lucky because we were very complimentary, you know, everybody had a different section to, to work with.
And at the time don’t forget that, it was very difficult, to work with analog since, because there was no memory button. So what you were doing was lost. Hour, you have to switch to another song. So all those people like brought together their knowledge and trying to bring something together to create.
We had to create an aesthetic because electronic music is much more mental than, than rock music or blues. And we needed to create a new jar. That would match this type of music because the, the recipes from rock music, for instance, didn’t apply for electronic music because the machines were so complicated and difficult to, to work on.
Yeah. That’s really interesting. You know, breaking down the history and it it’s it’s, you know, we almost look at it like with it’s nostalgic, right? It’s like that Renaissance period of electronic music, but, what was behind the name of Front 242? I’ve heard you answer this before. What was behind the name Front 242?
Well, it’s a purely graphic name. It’s like a name that we like, like you choose a brand because Front 242 can be set in almost all languages and two for two, the numbers, the same thing. And, it was very important that logo, because we really were standing behind. That sort of, it, it, it was like almost like a incorporated, logo, something like that.
, there was never a strong ego. People were working for the project Front 242. It, it was not like where you might see in a lot of bands where you have a leader or a guy needs to do is guitar solo. The way of making music was so complicated at the time. So difficult that we had all to work together for that one Front 242.
That’s cool. That’s really interesting. Now, there, there was something that made, the group so interesting and popular, you know, back then, the group started during kind of, well, during the backdrop of the, the cold war in Eastern Europe, you know, it was a heightened, political time and you were defined by a style called rivet head.
Do you remember that phrase rivet head? It was that, that fashion. The style. Okay. And I think the fans. You know, the time there are products of like that post-punk era really mm-hmm would you agree with that? And I guess the next question is if you could be at war with an ideology today, what would that be?
well, I think that what was always very interesting for us is that we, we were always, we had to fight. In a way against the, the general music business, because we were not Anglosaxon, we didn’t have a chance to have big labels. And so, so there was a, a sort of feeling of resistance and, this translates into music, something of an emergency or something of the danger, also.
We didn’t consider music as being an entertaining, something that was related to a certain reality. And at the time it was the cold war. If you listen to Front 242 today, there’s a track called red team that could totally apply for any news of what is happening for the moment in Europe. So I think the field where we were working on, had not, was closer to a sort of film soundtrack than really trying to be in.
A jar that would be jazz or blues or whatever. Don’t forget also that this, we are not musicians. There’s not one position in this bend. There’s just people touching knobs and, and, and we have good ears do, but, so it’s work more like a collage and that means that you create a sort of. Puzzle with political quotes, like, samples from movies that creates something subconscious in the guy, in the person listening to it.
He’s aware of the danger. You don’t understand totally the lyrics. So it’s more like an emotional, way of bringing out the music. Rather than trying to have a message for instance. Mm-hmm yeah, that’s interesting.
There’s a quote of. I don’t know if you remember saying this, when you were asked to define your sound, you said we’re somewhere in between throbbing, gristle, craft work and bands like that, but we are exclusive and have nothing to do with any fashion. So looking back now, do you still agree with that and, and maybe what were your biggest influences at the time?
Okay. Well, I would agree with that. partly it’s true that in my case, throbbing gristle was an influence, as well as crafter, of course, we cannot go around those guys, but, but the thing is that we, I believe we create. we created our own jar because of some, specification in, in, in our music.
Like the, the drums were always preeminent very ahead. And this for instance, helped us to, go more into the dance music or very recognized by the dense, society. But there was also a lot of research in sound, which was very important for us at the time. Keeps Front 242 being specific to tell you the truth.
I think if we’re still on the market, it’s because I still don’t hear a lot of Ben doing this type of, of music with this type of collage and it, it, it, it remains our recipe with our it’s our brand it’s, it’s something that is. Totally. Yeah. You see it on stage. There’s a, oh yeah. This is also, there’s a, a strong parallel between the imagery of, of the covers with the music.
What, what is happening on stage? It’s really a full concept. And the idea of a concept is not very often used anymore those days, but I think we, we have that sort of recipe that is proper to, to our music. Yeah, a hundred percent and you referenced it, you mentioned it, but you, it became known for your live performances in particular infamous.
If you will, right involved, loud, sound aggressive, stage presence, smoke, bright flashing lights, of course. And there was something so different about industrial shows then, why were the live performances of, you know, this genre industrial and Front 242 is so compelling and Memor. From the beginning.
We, we always had that feeling that we needed to provoke, for the reason that I said before, it’s we were not recognized by not only the music business, but neither by journalists. people were doing reviews were at the time in the early eighties, they didn’t have a clue of what electronic music was.
There was a little bit of clumsiness also in the way we were doing music, but. The people couldn’t grasp what, what we were doing. And we had a lot of very, if not, no reviews or bad reviews and a way for us to bring the media to us, but also to be more popular was to be very extreme. So we started to have those like paramilitary uniform.
We didn’t have smoke machines. So we had like real smoke, stuff on stage from the army that we were going. So the. More and more punk or post punk people were coming because it was very provocative, very extreme, something they never saw before. And I think from that, that beginning of that time, the agents was always the key for us.
And it’s because the agents was following us so strongly that. After the press came to us, just, just like another way around, but people could identify to that. I think people go to concert also to, to express themself. It’s something I always like by the, the punk movement is that the audience was as violent as the bands, you know?
And the audience is also a actor that it’s part of the show is so important and we always. Left that’s open. We still have, after all that time, we still have like PGOs and pits, dancing and stuff like that. It’s, it’s something that is very expressive. And I think the band is, is very expressive. Yeah.
It’s interesting because like critics, if you go through like the old. You know, press from back then, you know, critics of industrial music and you called, you know, the music cold, dark devoid of feeling, but, but it really became an incredible movement, a popular movement in that post-punk era. And like you said, there was something that was added in the emotion of the shows that made it so popular, but you ended up, touring with ministry at the time.
It was kind of an infamous tour. Mm-hmm can you tell us how that, that came to be and what your most memorable. maybe live moments might have been over the past, you know, few decades. Well, the tour in ministry was, thanks to wax tracks, which is like aary, label. These guys were like really brought us to the states and, and they were for us, they were visionary.
That’s matter. We ministry was on wax tracks at the time, but ministry was a sort of thought bent at the time. It was very, very different than what you, what you hear now. I remember all organs and watching our shows every time and being like impressed by, by the toughness of the show. Then we have, we have a lot of them of course, after 40 years, but strange enough, the first time we had the north, American audience, our single take one had no lyrics, very little lyrics and was very, very electronic.
And we. Quite a lot of, black audience in America. And it was at the time of the Detroit scene, just a little before. And, I remember a festival where we had like a, a fight with the security people because they were hitting, the audience and stuff like that. So I think for us, every, country was very surprising because the reaction of the people is very different.
It’s very extreme in the states and Canada may be a little. In Holland, people are mostly like, under, drugs and very quiet. Germans are very serious. You won’t hear them. And then you will hear them going crazy at the end of the show. It it’s very bizarre how the reaction is different because this music is so emotional.
So the reaction is, is like very emotional also, and it depends on the cultures. you mentioned Al JSON. What do you remember about him? What comes to mind? When I mention his name? I think he’s a very talented guy. I think he felt that he started on the wrong path because he started with that pop music, but he’s very good at writing pop songs also.
Mm-hmm I remember him asking his musician to be tougher on stage because he wanted to be like a little more industrial let’s say at the time. And then he switched totally, to something very. what I think about Ali Organon is that he, he made the crossover between, heavy metal and industrial music.
And strange enough in north America, industrial music is very linked to guitars. Whereas in Europe, industrial music is almost purely electronic. It’s a strange difference, but the spirit, makes sense between the two continents. Yeah, it was funny. I, ministry was interesting. Like you, you play old ministry.
People don’t believe it’s ministry, you know, like over the shoulder and, but you still had the, the, the analog machine elements to it a little bit. Right. So he was still using technology, but it was, it was, it was pop. Yeah. And then almost overnight he switched, you know, so maybe that was his true passion.
What’s your thoughts on the current state of the electronic music scene now, industrial in particular, you know, we, we don’t hear like full length albums, like we used to, it’s mostly tracked by track, but what’s your current thoughts on where it is right now? I think the main difference is what I said before.
It’s about the concept. I think you have less of a concept. I think electronic music today is more tryouts of, of a lot of people, but less maybe a, a political. Like those Bens had at the time, remembered with front two, for two in the studio, we were, we were almost talking more than making music, you know?
It’s like, you think about what you do and why you do it. And that’s this, this engagement is something that I miss people standing for. Something that would be a, a subculture or an anti rock movement or something. I won’t say Antifa, whatever it, I won’t go maybe that far, but at least having a, a sense of your impact with your music, towards the people and, and explaining more than just.
Recording tracks and playing live, because we have the cover, we have the slogans we had, like the, the, the, uniforms. I mean, there was, there was something that was like very strong and it’s the same for pens, like STR and gristle. Yeah. it was the ideology. Yes, definitely. You know, doesn’t doesn’t exist like it did then mm-hmm and I remember it.
, I remember you also, saying this is a quote of yours, industrial people in general, have a pessimistic vision, a critical vision of the world. Do you still agree with that? Yeah, I would say so. It’s, it’s a reaction. I mean, it’s strange. I mean, each time I start to do a track, it’s gonna be dark.
I dunno. Why, you know, why can I not be fun? it’s like, it’s it’s it’s it’s in your mind. I, I think it’s because music is an expression and, and, I, I think the world is tough. The world’s not easy. You know, there’s a lot of, there are like a lot of things that helps you to, to have a positive vision.
I mean, I love nature for instance, and stuff like that, but once you, you go deep into your minds, then you start to, we are, we are condemned to die. it’s like, that’s, that’s the main fact. And, This, this is driving like a lot of the way that you react, the way that you compose or create. It’s strange to be dark like that.
But I, I think, I think also you don’t accept things. It’s also a way to revolt and you know, to rebel, I think we missed that while we’re speaking about resistance. I think this is, we need to have some more resistance to things. Not necessarily be. But at least to question things and, and, and the music is an expression.
It’s a field where you can do that. Yeah. That’s a good way of explaining it. And, you know, obviously, you know, we’ve been talking about it here, but you know, you were pioneers in, in the use of technology, you know, machine sampling. I just wanna ask you what the creative process was like for Front 242.
Like, how did you create the music and, you know, the brand and, and the visual, like, what was the creative process like for. Okay. There was no real rule, you know, I would say that the classic way would be that Daniel who had some notions of drumming would start with a sort of baseline and a drum pattern.
, then I, I would go in with trying to structure things and compose in that sum sampling and, and other sounds, then we would send that demo to Jean the singer. He would try to write a text. And then when we recorded in the studio, then Richard would come by and, and give like those side vocals to it. But that’s one way, but sometimes it’s just a sample, like for welcome to paradise, you have like, Hey poor, you don’t have to be poor.
Of no sex until marriage. You start from that quote and you built around it again, it’s very mental. It’s very like you compose a little bit like movies. It’s not really like, like a rock band or something like that. It’s by, by drawers, I would say like drawers in a closet. Like each cut is drawer and, and you, you pass.
A piece of music to, to each other. And we, we reach back what I said about like having a sort of collage. That’s why so many tracks go different directions. You know, some tracks could be sang on and then you have a singer and, and it’s more composed like a song like Headhunter or whatever. but some other tracks don’t find their way.
So we keep it instrumental. And as a sort of research.
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Wait. Were you surprised at how popular Headhunter was or was that maybe, was it a turning point for the group? I mean, that Headhunter really became, it had commercial success, right? Like to this day, people still play Headhunter, you know? Yeah. were you surprised at the success of it or did you just compose that one differently?
Was it. With the intent to be played in all the clubs and everything. Yeah. We were very surprised about it to tell you the truth. It wasn’t supposed to be the single of that album initially. And there was another a track. Normally I think it, it, it, it is. And it’s still one of the rare industrial. hit track that I know popular industrial track, one of the rare one with maybe some of nine inch nails.
And so, but at the time we were really not aware of the success. It would be the, especially that single with welcome to paradise on the other. On the other side, it was a big hit in Spain also because in all the dense club, those track could be placed in dense club as well, industrial clubs, as well as in very different.
Different type of, of happenings. It was very surprising. Yeah. Head entered to me is one of those timeless industrial classics. Like I could listen to it over and over again. Never get tired of it. There was something special about that track, you know, years later, like I said, it’s on all, it’s on all the playlists, in doing some research, you know, how did movies and architecture play a role in inspiring while the creative process of the branding?
Well being no non-musician because we’re not a musician. Like I said, being non-musician and having those machine in Front 242 of you, like synthesizer that at the time were quite complicated. You, you had to relate to something, you, you couldn’t work like a rock band and saying, okay, I’m gonna be the bass player player.
You gonna be like the guitar player we’re gonna do. We couldn’t use that recipe of rock music. We were in Front 242 of like black boxes with buttons. So architecture at the time was. What so called postmodernist architecture, which is an architecture that uses a lot of grids. And there’s a grid for the lights.
There’s a grids for the circulation of the people arrange the building and, and the different rooms. And so, and this really helped us to structure things. So if you listen to the Front 242 music, it’s very. Horizontal layer. It takes a little more 3d effect in, in the production, but we needed to make it very quite mathematic.
Like architecture can be. So for us, this way of, of structuring the songs were related to what was happening in architecture at the time, or, or still as today. Now the lyric part, because. Pretty much like the very, I would say rigorous part mathematic part, but now the lyric part came from all those sounds that you could find in mute in films, because there’s much more richness in a film than in an album from a band.
At the time. So there, we could find those sound. There were even though sampler at the time in the beginning, but we could relate to that because we were more interested in sound than really being interested in music, would say that music was very often a, a support or something that would help person would listen to it to, to catch something.
But at, at the same time, there was a lot of research and that was more. Coming from the film, soundtrack field. Yeah. And I guess that explains like, why you’re also into Russia, Russian, constructivism, Italian, futurism, right? Yeah. that all played a role influenced the, the music. Yeah, definitely because that’s, the, the move for the Constructionism constructivism, I would say it brings it it’s related to the, the sort of.
Toughness and mathematic part of having to work with this machine who were really not easy and reliable. And then what I would say, like the Italian futurism is, is more like the movements and the way that you put things together. those were two move artistic movements that were very, important for us.
Yeah. And your videos were also art pieces as well, which was interesting. I’m I’m sure inspired by, you know, some of the art you guys were involved with. Right. those videos. I also remember, I have like distinct memories of the Bobba fat video for Headhunter with Bobba fat. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The thing, the thing is like we had a long conversation with, Anton Coban, which is actually, you know, one of the guy who worked with two and, and, Mm-hmm and the mode.
And, we gave him like really cat blanche. Like we would say he could really do whatever he wanted, but he right away connected us with that architecture that you could find in Brussels from the fifties that was close to something very administrative very Auste a very hostile. And it much because this, what, what I really like about that video is that there is also a sense of humor in it, you know?
And, and that’s something that, that I miss and that’s, it’s very difficult to integrate into what we do, but this just was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, no kidding. that’s an interesting perspective. Now here’s a question. Where does, where does industrial music in the genre go from here? You know, sounds very similar.
Like you mentioned in north America, it’s very guitar heavy, a lot of the industrial, but thoughts on maybe the technology or where the genre goes from? Well, industrial music to me appears by ways it’s like it disappears for a while or you don’t hear it very much. And then it comes back. I think it’s it.
It really depends on the, the world situation. I think if there’s like a very dark image of the world, probably that more and more bands will express it on a very, strong way. And yeah, I think there’s no movement. It’s like there are less and less movement. The last Mo movement that I more or less remember is something like dubstep.
But we, we don’t speak about movements, but more like about tryouts here and there, you hear an, an artist that sound more like, or that, that pushes the music more like in, in one direction than another. So, like I said, I think it’s totally fragmented. you still find some people, The cold wave festival, for instance, in Chicago, that can gather like old band with new bands and make sense on the whole evening.
I think there, you have like some peaks of something that you might call industrial world, but besides that, I don’t think there’s a, there’s a full movement of that anymore. Got it, but the influencer remains. Yeah. I mean the influence will always be there. It was the beginning of something and it’s, it’s still relevant today.
So what’s next for the group. I know you got the tour coming up. Do you have any projects besides that? Or are you just focused on the tour? No, we have, Actually, we create a whole new aesthetic for the tour. we have new new clips, let’s say, that are very different to what we always did. It’s not like those psychedelic images anymore.
We have like, mostly like very cinematography landscapes and stuff like that. It’s very powerful. It’s all black and white. Also, like I said, at the beginning of this interview, we consider the live shows as a platform to create. So we. Pyramid three new tracks. Also, we hope to have a fourth one by, by the time we go to Canada.
, so we bring in like new tracks life and we try on to the singer are trying to find stuff on it. They have basically a bad, it’s a little bit of improvisation, but it’s a more organic way to make things happening rather than being in studio for like 15 days. And not really knowing we have new tracks, we have like new.
Imagery and the band still are still very physical on stage. so that hasn’t changed. So I guess you guys will discover that. Yeah. can’t wait, can’t wait. so here’s a question. Where are you finding inspiration for new projects and endeavors right now? Like what do you, is it still the same? Is it still film and, and things like that?
Dark imagery, where are you finding inspiration? Well, for me, it’s, what what’s really, shakes me, it is mainly film, but now mostly series like TV series is like the, when I listen to the soundtrack of, Mr. Robots or when I, I watch like the, the contents of, euphoria, for instance, I think this is going very far, very far in.
Sexuality in drugs in, in extremes. I’m very interested in, in young people. I think young people express themself on a very wild way, but a very interesting way. Also, the more rebellious than what we were almost at the time, the problem is that they look for a direction. And for me, when I watch young people, because I’m, I’m teaching also, I think there’s something.
Growing there. That’s super interesting. It, it is a, they don’t accept the world. Like we try to sell it. So I’m very interested in that movement, although it’s not totally a movement. Politics is still also something that interests me in international politics. like I said, musically, there are too many instruments on the market.
And a lot of plugin and stuff like that. So I’m more tempted to limit myself when I start a project with two or three instrument and start with that, besides that I still keep the reflexes and the way of working that I did in the eighties, only the technology has changed, but my mind is still working. I believe very much in the, in the census.
Of human being. I think you all start with your five senses and your IDs rather than expecting the machine to tell you something. You know what I mean? So for me to, to create like a sort of strong ambition, intention, philosophy, watching stuff, this is, this is feeding me. And then only I try to express this in a sort of way form or a musical form.
, you mentioned, teaching. So when you’re not creating music, you’re a. Yeah, I’m a teacher. Also. I work, with documentary music. I teach for documentary music. I teach in audio video. Also. I teach also, I have a theory curse about sound. So I work in 5.1 also for documentaries. So yeah, I try to keep myself busy.
I I’m DJing also. I mean, which is something totally different. So even though I’m, I’m like in my sixties, I sometimes happen to be at four o’clock in the morning in Spain DJing, you know, it’s like totally crazy world. You know, what’s funny though, is like some of the pioneers like yourself and Goldie. I mean, he’s still DJing 60 years old, close to 60, you know, or whatever.
Mm-hmm, like going strong, man. The music never, leaves your soul, you know, and never leaves your DNA. What, what are you listening to now, besides your own music you’re creating? Is there, is there anybody that you’re listening to now, or you’re impressed by, music wise now? Well, I was impressed by, say going back to series, by the guy Laban, the guy who did the soundtrack for, a Foria, the production is amazing, on those tracks.
, I listen also to what, what they call like minimal wave sometimes. Like bands like yeah. Adon, Adonis, for instance, or adults Ben like that, or, yeah. I still listen to all tra also because, I like, crowd talk like the German crowd talk, the, the German music from the seventies. I’m not gonna pull, iTunes, but I listen really I really listen to, Through a lot of different stuff.
It could be like also ambient music because when I I’m I’m the Booker for the bent. So, so there I’m, I’m more tempted to put, ambient music. My, one of my master is Brian Eino for instance. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, yeah. there’s like, but here, when I see, so it goes from archive ARA temple, which is German, David Bowie, Yeah, that dance, yeah, French music also because I’m French speaking, cuz is on this.
You have like Julia Bondar, which is like somebody from, a new, a new person that I just discovered telling ma ma attacks like Nija, like Petro boys, all kinds of stuff like this. Oh, that’s a, a toilet yeah. Yeah, it goes all all directions. But But I’m still interested in production. And, and when somebody’s got something to say, I’m, I’m like very excited about it.
Then I, I listen, to, to it. I’m still very, paying attention to, to the Avantgarde and stuff like that. Yeah. Fantastic. I always like to ask that question of, creatives, two questions left. what do you do for fun? What do you do in your down? I have a lot of walks with my dog, you know? So, that’s, that’s something I do for fun.
I enjoy going, seeing, small concerts in, in like crap places. Yeah. I enjoy that very much, you know, like something that, that brings back things into your guts, it’s like, so I enjoy going and, and watch concerts. Yeah. That basically it’s a traveling. I’m a, I’m a diver also. I like to. Mm. so I travel for diving when I can mm-hmm that’s what I do mostly for fun, you know?
That’s that, that, that’s great. And final question. This one will really make you think, Patrick, if you could have dinner with any three people in history, pastor present, who would they be and why? Mm, well, it would be definitely Brian Eino, because I think it’s one of the first guy who had like some theories about popular music and who, who decided to go another way.
Very impressed by his album, my life in, my, my life in the bushes of ghosts with, David burnt that album. that’s one guy, the other guy. Okay. I have to find two other man to have a dinner with, haha. It’s tough. Well, I, I would like to have a dinner with Julian Asan because I think this guy would be it’s his life.
So because he was just in search for truth. And that’s a guy, I don’t know if I have to admire totally or not because he put some people in danger, but at least he, he, he got, he got the guts to do something that is like exceptional to me. And, The third person, it would be Donald Trump, I think, because this guy’s, so I would have such a great time just to read this quote.
I’m like, I’m just like going nuts. When I, when I listen to this guy, it would be like totally out of the blue, you know, so, wow. What a dinner table that would be, Hey, so broad, very. Brian, you know, Julian Asange and Donald Trump. What a dinner table. Anyways, Patrick, my man, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to get today.
Glad we, actually made this happen. You we’ll see you in Montreal. See you Montreal brother. Bye David. Bye.
