My guest today is one of the most fascinating figures in the music industry. Clifford Price, better known as Goldie is a British musician, producer and DJ. Initially he gained exposure as a cult status graffiti artist. However, he has become better known for his pioneering role as a musician during the nineties, UK jungle drum and bass and break, beat hardcore scenes.
After releasing a variety of singles, he co-founded the legendary metal heads label and really several albums under his own name, including the iconic 1995 album timeless, which entered the UK. number seven and is considered one of the best known breakbeat Anthem. So all time Goldie is also appeared in several movies, including a James Bond film.
The world is not enough guy, Richie snatch, and I am looking forward to discussing his very interesting life and incredible career Goldie. Welcome to the run GPG podcast. Amen. Hi, I’m, I’m really sorry about this.
I’m in my friend’s house and I’m like, which way do I go here? And every, all my old canvases, all nude. So I’m like, let’s stay away from the naked ladies today. So I appreciate that. I know you’re just in, from Thailand, you mentioned, I just got in, yeah, on I’ll go in on Friday. And then I played Friday night before hours.
Back-to-back Randall at the village underground, which is a kind of pretty well-known joint in shortage. And then. Connie couldn’t sleep after that adrenaline. And I, whilst that I slept in the afternoon for like three hours and I drove to Leeds, which is like three and a half they’re through now.
Fair enough. Well, drivers in LA and I’m like, it’s not the old days. I’m just going to, it’s like going back to the 1990 where you, you drive in for, for very little money to go do a gig, which was great money, but I drove for seven hours and play for two hours and got back at 7:00 AM Sunday morning. But yeah, I mean, to be honest, I, I don’t like doing conventional things and I think that I understand we’d run with you guys, like who is this guy?
If you stay around long enough within anything, you know, you become back in fashion or you kind of. I can Valium or Renaissance and, and, it, it is what it is. I mean, it’s, there’s certain things I sit through and, Nick, you know, Nick Walker’s brother and association with tats, Cru, you know, my, my life began at 18 running around New York and meeting heroes I’d seen in a book.
And I think, I always say to people, if you want to keep things interesting ESL for those that don’t know the timeline, my, my, my very crucible of my existence as an ISE, is having firstly having a very shattered timeline. You kind of know roughly chronologically what happened the way you went in and out, things happened in your life, you know, and it’s, and people will tell us about your life.
He’s like that all accordion, that chess, like the same old thing. But if you, you just have to get different ways to tell. And really my story is a story of a boy who came from the care system and went to New York and met loads of other boys thinking he was this one individual and that thousands of boys, their stories could actually engulf mine in the horror of what it’s like to be young drug field, crazy.
The separation from a different cast. We’re talking about a society in New York that was built by Ireland. People that came in search of prosperity, New York, and lived in the burrows and built Manhattan and whites. So relevance is that was the major alias metropolis of which probably the biggest Phoenix we’ve ever realized has happened with hip hop culture as a culture, as a whole.
Anything that culture is attached to is use the stuff that’s not very nice. And it comes up out of the despair is the counter culture. To the pressure from society, which has been with us since we’d first been in slate. Now I’m going to, it’s around. It’s on about then we get into some BLM or whatever I’m mixed race.
I’m off Jamaican off Scottish. I’ve just got up on the shoulder of giants. Same as Nick. I’m loving the culture that didn’t forgive to me for being odd and forgive me for loving, the arts so much from a society that was so detached from that. And it’s powerful because from that very Phoenix from hip hop culture in, you know, I look through New York as a kaleidoscope, it was looking through one lens and you forget about Yonkers and you forget about New Jersey and you forget about LA and Philly and Gainsborough and Jacksonville as a whole.
And, but you see you get a zoom into that lens because you start recording video tapes of break dancers and graffiti and art and condensing it to. Before the internet, we’re talking about video clips. So I mixed types of culture, all songs together, roughly on a VHS or Betamax. And that’s what you lived.
So when you get culture inverted, without a timeline, it’s you don’t know was he’s glad he’s not a pips was, was Malcolm McLaren was that before? Where did I go? First? He was HeadSpin was Ken swift, where in these rare human states where they wish for him to stay for the Adidas, where they swayed, look at the clip, trans zoom in, freeze it, pause it.
So you, you get this culture. We lead up, as I say this, and this is something which is really weird with my life at a massive deja. I grew about this very conversation. Yeah, I get that a lot. So, but I find it fascinating that I think once you get through this life and you find the spiritual self through all of this shit that happened, you find this much stuff, there’s always become a little bit more frequent.
They become a little less odd. You know, is it my life playing out in reverse, but he really is like the, going back to the point, this is a story about a boy who had a remarkable experience. I could wait list of people I’d met or share dinner with at the most crazy experiences thinking this is a boy that came from Wolverhampton.
No one would ever expect to, to get any. I need to ask you about this because, you know, in talking about your upbringing, the crazy environment, you’re pretty open about, you know, you’ve said that the music you make you called drum and bass the uncle under the stairs, that no one wants to welcome to the party because they’ll tell you the truth.
And it’s an incredible quote. Can you expand on that as it relates to how you actually, yeah. I said it yesterday, you know, because they’re trying to make jungle documentary on basing and so many people getting wrong and they’re trying to label something when people are doing it, you know, whether or not, you know, I remember when miles Davis first said, don’t call this jazz, you know what a Jasmine, but you get cold tries.
And it is just, you know, the people that do it are the people that do it. The people that look on the inside will always try and label it. But the idea that this music. There is those uncles that turn up and they’re like, can you just like, can you not stay for that long? Because you’re going to start like drinking the kids.
Like I know they love you and they really, you, but you know, you’re going to smoke weed with them or you, you know, you might tell them they don’t want to know. And it’s like, well, you know what I mean? What in Santa Claus, they know Santa Claus is not fucking real. And right now, you know, with society there, isn’t a guardian fucking room with a chair sitting there and God, okay.
If we really go, so here’s 10 virgins and you know, you get to live in this wonderful candy floss chair for eternity, man. Your ass is going to be naked. Let’s think theoretically about two kids you ask is gonna wake in a candy floss chair internally. You’re going to want to get out. It’s just too comfortable.
You know, the game’s up with society, the overload of society selling us the lie. It’s only when you get to this age. And I say to artists as a species man, as a species. We are the barbarians from within, and it’s our purpose to be the uncles. It’s a purpose to be dutiful, even when you know, or you assume not even taking the atheist path, which I’m not, but let’s just manage the fucking ego for a second.
We all going to fucking die. We are already on the way out the stars of burning burnings at their price point, fighting out fading in, but that burning legends, the people that spend their life doing something most Davis is legend Charles Mingus, his election Beethoven this election DaVinci’s alleged.
We’re just big players that gets a push in keyboards and do stuff. And I always say that beyond that. I’m not computer literate. What I shoe is how long would the shoulder of some guy can Valkyries you pull the best out of you because that’s the purpose as minorities to work with different mediums, no matter how, what shape they come in.
So in the answer to the uncle and the question of what that means is that the game’s up tell the truth. At the end of the day, he’s like, you know, my daughter knows there’s a shifting of energy and that when you pass you pass an end, if we have gained some kind of consciousness within the lost, in my existence in the last four decades, five decades, some kind of plateaued consciousness, then maybe I’ll constrain, you know, my brain with Iowasca or mushrooms or whatever it is so that the energy becomes conscious.
And for so long, the ego goes, I don’t want to be part of the one. Cause I mean, you made sure all I’m original, but you part of what you, part of a bigger picture and the idea of being part of the. Hey, wake up. So, but the idea of what’s the best leaving the best of people, you know, with all the technology.
And it’s like when I listen to new music and listen to what kids are doing, I get, I get the new generations. But I also understand that we just hurtled with this kind of crucible of ideas, we wound it up in the, in this casting mole, we hit the hammer. We cast the gold in, we’re hitting the two thousands and we’re heading it’s way 20, 20, 30 approaching.
And we’ll folding time because knowledge is allowing us the whole time, because we’ve never followed the time before. Because from a, from a basic perspective, we first started time travel, not by watching docs, by creating a sampler or something that can freeze some and replay back to us. That’s time travel because we know we need to understand what I really mean is I can go back and we’ve been here for how many thousands of years.
We’ve only been able to record audio for the last hundred years. 100 years. Yeah. That’s not even your grandfather’s dad. So when you put it into perspective, I thought about all of that, and I’ve always been very dutiful to what those recordings are going to be. If I want to play myself back to someone that’s not family, and I want to play my music to going to south America, at least there’ll be able to understand the rhythmic harmony, even if he doesn’t understand the language of it, as opposed to being some sell out cop-out of something.
That’s trying to make money that at the slightly sounded completely good and sounding like an adult’s Shawn’s about child, let the kids do the kitchen and the adults be adults. And that’s the difference? I think so without going too far off piece, there was no gray area with me. The idea of an RCC is to burn and to burn well and to try and do you know when you look at the mask.
Or if I out eventually the masters and you look at the amount of canvas time, real time, or you quantum that with screen time on one’s phone, when you go, you’ve used 10 hours of screen time, what are you really doing with your screen time? What were you really, really doing with that time? So I guess the lamenting for people that will look at your show or people that look at me or other people there’s this, the main thing for the night is because they couldn’t quite capture it because it wasn’t, it didn’t exist for them.
So as what I call the Motown era, so the Motown syndrome where we become the Motown within the electronic music. But the difference is that we don’t sound like smokey Robinson, you know, how can you create, how can you be involved in a genre where I can sit in the nineties because when we gave her the knives and I can just turn 45 degrees.
And I can look at the sixties and I can go to smart house, the early rain rock rise of Mali. You look at all the stones, all these bands, that kind of cream. Right? Okay, cool. Four back to the night is okay. Now swivel again to 2020 it’s 30 years. Difference Saint that he is. He decided that he is, but I can play stuff in 2020 for five hours set.
Let’s say his weekend and kids go, what up? Cause this shoe Maddie, you guys, 25 years old. Does the sound on the Beatles? Does it sound like the smokey Robinson? Because the music genre itself, the big uncle immediate was Megan future Ben. And that’s why drama based music as a genre, as what you just misconstrued is still the most powerful genre music, electronic music ever made, and he’s still sick.
At the bottom of the ladder in regarding to its accessibility, because Hey, reading wild style, like a graffiti writer is difficult, man, unless, you know, wild style and, you know, assess letter or by a wall style, you know, you, you know, it’s wall style, but you know what this generation wants bubble is. So, so, so we can paint bubble letters and they’re really well-balanced bubble letters and they’re execute really cool and they’re really balanced.
But if you know a writer that writes really good wall style, or you seize bubble lettuce, you go out in a minute. Wow. Those letters are really good. I love pusher. For example, being around a wall, not an old school writer, clinical execution, but great bubble letters, but not whilst off, but you know, is quite prolific as an ISE to execute like that as opposed to being bubble is.
And I think that’s, what’s really important too, at my position. Without going too far off base is very important that I serve culture. And I think that when rap became, you know, about the calls, you hide for a video that you didn’t know, I was out, I was out. I’m like, I’m, you know what I’m done? Ain’t real for me.
This isn’t a real job and basically is real for me because it’s real struggle. And you know, the roots he’s real and Pharcyde is real. Kara Swan is real. And you know what I mean? So, you know, we, we, it’s been part of my life and the b-boys is a massive part of my life. And it’s explaining it in a rather beautiful book called all things remembered, which was a second book that I did, which is really, it really talks about that stuff in data.
Yeah. You said so much there and I, you know, such a scream of poetry as well, but just your stream of consciousness. There’s so much to unpack there. I mean, you, you talked about, you know, legends are people that dedicate their life to something, you know, you talked about. Looking back with almost like a Renaissance feel to that time period.
And to me and many, you know, you were one of the original disruptors, you know, a larger than life personality. When he came on the scene, you were the full package, you had the gold teeth, the music, the attitude. Was that branding deliberate, or did that happen organically or did it, was it organic? You know, what do you think?
Now that man said, that’s just my life, you know, Goldie Goldilocks, growing up, going to Miami learning to make gold seat. I was living in a house with, you know, I went to Miami searching, you know, walking up and down Washington and ocean drive to want to find some trendy, kind of art, you know, art deco guys to work with.
And like there, you know, and I ended up being my father lives in Cal city, Carole city’s infamously, Jamaican, you know, and, and before I’d arrived there, you had like the shower posse and rain, all these crazy Jamaican gangs interrupts racial. I’m warring. You know, I met Orlando plain walking around 117 on fleas flea market, which actually got demolished like six months ago, you know?
And I’m like, I’m out. So this guy’s or, you know, New York connection, a guy that does those goals, Eddie, you know, he works for the Eddie’s goal. He was his brother. And you know, the story of Eddie’s gold is quite prolific and Eddie’s goals. You know, Eddie is the family of the five brothers came from Sarah and I’m the first family to go to America to make gold teeth.
Let’s forget about all the trendies and all the new kids and all this stuff in Atlanta. These are the guys that started that is the brothers went to Jacksonville, Atlanta. This is in the eighties, late eighties, you know, guys who were responsible for just dice when JZ was 17, he got his first gold front, you know, and an Eddy silver shop in the Coliseum.
In Brooklyn doing goals and his brother Orlando was in Miami. And of course I liquid Orlando and I learned the trade of goals and goldsmithing and making gold. And, you know, I mean, real alchemy, you know, you, you give me the, you know, I get an oven and a centripetal caster, and he gave me a couple of gold and, you know, give me some wax in a church and I’ll make it from the morning.
I’ll wake up until I go to sleep. Cause I know how to do that. I know how to go from beginning to end and say, as opposed to you make the wax, you pass to the other guard and you’re the guide passes to the cast, the cast, he goes to the finish it finish. It goes to the stolen setter. You know, we learned to do it top to bottom and, you know, jewelry, smithing was real alchemy.
So any painful in front covers, then you just did what you did. And I think that when. No Tommy Hilfiger came back like in a weird way, but, you know, we were doing, and I guess, I guess people call it disruptors. They call it whatever. And I just hustled manner. I would sell canvases for clothes out of the back of PR companies, banner crazy.
I’m not caught sand. I was like, do you know how to sign a little sentence falling out of your head? And you’re like, I’m just being and hustling. And you know, I spend money standing outside clubs. We, my last 50 quid that I was just spent on dump, like, cause I’m, so I haven’t sold enough weight. I actually can say that I’ve never had a job since I was 17.
I went to art school and I quit second year in foundation and I never looked back also. And that was it. I just went to New York and hustle. It’s been, it’s been beautiful. And I think that the, the music and the gallery in Bangkok is incredible because we are. A lot of people don’t know, you know, oh my God, he’s doing art now.
I’ve been doing, since I was 17, man, like automa, it’s my thing. It’s the, you know, when you learn graph, you know, I always say that any graffiti and it’s seasoned this contemporary things, it’s like, it’s, it’s easy for us. It’s like, wow. It’s like painting my numbers easy. When you learned the crop, I can give a hundred cans.
I guess I, you know, his 200 cameras, what caused you want? Give me a list of condoms. Okay. There you go. He’s 200 pounds. There’s a wall. Go on. You all students you’re in foundation. So now you’re a Goldsmith. Go paint that 20 foot wall. And I’m going to come out with a graphy rapper, but you any money to graffiti walk and go to that college and you could turn it upside down and that’s what’s happening.
When you look at people like CRNA, when now good. They all want to procreate. Literally Lily’s new audience turning about procreate inside out because you know, culture, challenges, technology more than ever now, which is very important, you know? And I, my, my diversification is real. It’s like, okay, so I’ll call it.
I can’t manually work computer. So, but I can write a school cause I can sing music into my phone and I can get a guide, his scores, and I have to start scoring this. And I know what a school looks like. Well, I can pull all the strings in the top and all the middle vial is in the middle and the bass sounds and the drums in the bottom.
Okay. So that’s what the score does. Okay. First violinist, whereas everyone in the orchestra. Okay, cool. So it’s just about. Physicality for me about, you know, inverting your music for orchestra, which is, you know, that it, you know, 10 years ago, and I’m done it time and time again with disrupting that stuff.
And now it’s kind of bearing fruit. People are realizing, you know, new compositions can be translated into, into good composition and dramas can keep up now. And I saw that with Mingus when Mingus made his old person never got created, I thought I’d never wanted that to happen. Mingus created a prolific piece of work that was found in the basement of his flat music evicted from so beautiful documentary for those that want knowledge is called below or beneath the underdog.
And it’s quite prolific because it couldn’t happen this modern age where one of the most prolific jazz musicians of his time in New York was evicted with a wheelbarrow carrying all of these scores out of a flat because he couldn’t afford the rent because. We might have fair share of people like Sammy Davis Jr.
Had been dying broke. So the idea of ownership within your masters and ownership with the creation is important. The record companies didn’t go away. That’s a diversify, you know, so without going too far off track, I’ve just navigated a physicality, you know, could I retired? You know, yes. I went to Thailand to retire that didn’t work out because something keeps talking to me and wanting to make music and wanting to do stuff.
And weirdly enough, you know, the, the new projects, you know, subjective is, is important because it challenges the bubble letter. It’s like, okay guys. So you took each one. So you celebrating mother in Paris. That’s 22 years old and you celebrate and spineless. This is 25 years old, but you didn’t get it at the time.
So what was the lesson you learned from that? And you got criticized at its own bar. People could say anything cause it was new. So they thought let’s jump on a bandwagon. Cause if they like it, we like it. There’s no incident. You’re putting an album that gets the wards. It was up against our first major award with best album, the mobiles and best jungle album, because I couldn’t find any of the category to name.
It was, it was up against Jamal requiring a Destiny’s child, you know, and it’s timeless. It was just, just waiting. He was like the odd Anchel right. So, so it’s all right for people to look back on it in retrospect, but this music, the club blue note, what I brought with me, it wasn’t just an artist making an album.
It was a reflection of a society. And a massive change. What was happening at the time
in listening to you? I, it, it surprises me that you’re, it sounds like you’re somewhat surprised that the influence you had on modern day creatives and influencers, like, you know, I grew up with your music in the nineties. I was a DJ for many years. I told you this, you know, like, you know, you mentioned Travis Scott and some others and whatever, but you had such a big influence on not just the music scene, but on culture in a way.
And I find that, and you touched on creativity, true creatives, never stopped creating, right? You’re you’re making the art, you’re making the music. You’ve got, projects. To two things here, where do you find inspiration? And what’s your creative process look like? I notice, but the trick is not to be driven by the ego in the way that most eyes do that nineties version of me, my ego would enter the room before I did.
And then the entourage would be after me and to get all of those kids and the cars and the Ferrari’s and the bed, isn’t having all of that stuff. I’m getting rid of all of that stuff. How does it embed it? You know, blew three engines. Cause he was like too fast, but it all, but you realize that the richness is in wealth and I actually wouldn’t change anything.
You have to make, you have to make the mistakes. You have to understand what’s right. But there are no mistakes. It’s just a preordained path of which way you have to go and move and navigate through. My journey has been really long because I need to walk around the outside, walking directly to the center.
It’s not going to teach me anything. It’s like, it’s like a woman that our guy that, that goes into yoga and they can be really flexible because they do ballet and they can do all of the moves. There’s no learning in that. There’s no for their journey is completely different because you know, Alex is validated.
Their journey is valid too. But the idea of being inflexible is like, my mind is not flexible. I can’t adapt what you got to expand your mind. You got to think outside the box. I wasn’t prepared to make time. And so I made mother mothers still is and should be the kind of thing in the modern age. That should be a black opera that should be played to the Guggenheim with a, with a full cast of ATPs orchestra and full production.
It should be because he’s it’s the blackest starts. It’s, it’s the story of real traumatic coherence between a child, looking at his self, the policy of how he uses the subject matter. And what birth and death is and the, and the, the archetype of, you know, building and designing something like that, which make no sense to the general public and Barry, God bless him, said masterpiece purely because you’re sticking to what you believe.
And it was, it was his version of low, if you like, and the way that this is the lamenting towards a mother’s love that you never had, you know, that resonates and comes to viewers fruition as an artist in its purest form. When you come back from America, When you go into the chapel arrests and you see a body there that she’s no longer present and you play the said records as promised and sit there, bawling your eyes out whaling.
In fact, playing this Opus of one hour from start to finish and to feel the cathartic process of what it is, what it means to me. So when you said, what is the creative process? The creative process is just that meeting and trying to find who we really are. I know very, very little now. And I have it in a weird way because the other stuff’s material, but understanding and finding a calmness of that.
Okay. So we ended is gonna move and he’s an easy to zoom into the lens for you guys to the creatives. What if there is nothing. What if that is it, and this is the memory of it all, this is it. So let’s forget the panic and the, and the, and the kind of the full setups of belief systems, you know, , you know, and we just think about next time, maybe if this is that, if we’ve come from nothing, they might be, we can become something else after, but it wasn’t what they said.
He was in the book that I told us. He was because he’s purely evolution of the spirit it’s evolution of that oneness. So the idea for me is hell as in your terms of what you call the beginning to end of our existence in the human form is not being able to remember any of it. And the heaven is maybe creating some kind of conscious stream.
The maybe log what Iowasca teaches us and the mother drug. There’s another realm, the vibrates in a different place. And it’s not, it’s not part of the physical, which is not. So the idea of we are tipping the iceberg consciously as a race, as a species is very important to me. So let me just bring that back into the creative source for me, I listened to the inner child.
I listened to that what you call by call the spirit to be able to, okay. So that’s the kid that we always hit away. And so I learned from that the Hoffman process and what I learned in my daily practice of trying to do stuff, I get it. It doesn’t mean I don’t FM blind doesn’t mean I don’t get the occasional.
Does it mean it doesn’t mean I’m going to go sit and just hook trees? I’m trying to better today. I want to be a better version of the person I was yesterday. And if making music and art keeps my validation of that. I don’t mind because so many of my heroes died as an after fact and they became famous when they were dead and their profit, their family’s profits in front of it.
I’m like, I’m not because I want to know what am I doing when I’m alive? And I guess that’s still part of the ego, but I’ll make sure there’s enough beautiful pages that are in the home that we’re going to be. All right, kids, we’re going to be good. But what would you want, what would anyone wants? Would you want to leave?
Just, you know, he died. She left a lot of photographs though. What you, some really funny names? Well, what did he do though? 10 hours screens on the day, but did he, did he paint anything? Not really. Did he make anything physically and it’s a bit of money to Sherry. Okay. What’s his thought? I think there’s a lot of production and a lot of producing.
So I think, what do we need to produce for ourselves is hope giving us something, which you can’t really weigh know if it helps someone or, you know, I’ve got, no, I’m not going to sit through DMS of, Hey man, can you tell me what you think of this? You should know what I think of this. You should know that it’s not good enough, or you should know that if this is the best, you should know that.
So act on that. You don’t need validations to me. Cause I didn’t seek out from anyone else I bought from the, my heroes and bears that I went. I want to give them this and they get to play along in a hearing. That’s where it comes on the end. Not on you just giving it to them. Cause you gotta give it to him.
And he’s got to go through that. They’re going to play the outcome, not the pre-com. Do you know what I mean? So it’s important to remind artists that are moving forward, that you really need to put the work in, man. It’s like, you know, it’s really weird what me and my wife, we laugh about it, but I didn’t ask with 30,000 followers, all of a sudden, I think it went up exponentially from last year.
I think it was like 50,000 and he just went mad for some mad reason, just went nuts. And I think it’s because I just took the piss out of it because what it really is, you know, you do a heartfelt thing. Hey man, listen, can you just go and check this by eight? Because he’s got several accounts and they’re going to die and you got eight likes and then you put a fucking hassle.
I’m lucky to have this lawn. And then you go, Hey, you got 50,000 likes. They’ve got mad. The world’s gone mad. But within that madness somewhere, there’s this sanity with it. Us that we think he’s mad and he’s like, no, he’s actually, we’re all fucking mad. The idea of having some kind of sanity within the plant, within the chaos, there’s actually a pattern if you can follow it.
And I think we just have to kind of get our own wisdoms and patterns are kind of slightly outside of this, you know, going to yoga is important. You know, I’m a Yogi, but I’m not like in mass, I’ve got yoga masters. I’ve got people that I’ll go to that. I like that. You know, as we say too many Indians, too many cows.
Not enough Indians. You know, the idea of, of delegation is important to, to, to, to try and be mindful. And also people don’t know, well, you know, it’s kind of yogurty slowly in each and it should be better programs for young kids to get in there in the school. And those were give up two rolls of your back roll, man.
You’re not gonna make any more money guys and yoga studio, less suburban kids in why not? Sony roll is the yoga study, Quincy Jones. So did algo Jill Jabbar. You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s a, there’s a lot of people forget that this, this thing’s been around for 5,000 years, but it only does what yoga really does, which would just brought it around to yoga because he’s part of the creative process.
It just clears the lens, the lens for you to look through clearly, and see something and go I’m on to mean. Now come talk things out a little bit. Well, yeah, I mean, I think about it, I’m fascinated with the fact that how do I, I’m going to squeeze 30 out of this, you know, what did I achieve in the last 13?
I’ve achieved more in the last five than I’ve done in the last 20 in, in, and I’m like, okay, that’s, that’s good. Then that’s a good sign. You know, it’s when people look through the lens and they got blue note that those sets of pictures you see are only actually over a two week period. I could say the same with so way off the book donate a hundred doom, the big hole, because they were done when New York was on strike in that period, it’s like six weeks in New York, not over the 40 years, how long we’ve had your feeling.
That was, the trains were captured. Isn’t that weird, that moments of time that will catch it. You can get to everything now. So what’s going to be important if you can get. So much, but it’s someone that understood that was virtually understood to capture culture through a package company, to capture culture and roll the Trojan horse through that, to understand through his lens and looking and getting an idea of focus through other people’s cultures, but he was skateboarding, but it was Pyrex what he was that, you know, those are the people I admire and still admire the, the, the gave 40 to be forties plus just that young that’s so done that much work, you know, this prolific in this goddamn prolific.
And I think, and I think that for me, is like, is that a different way? Of prolific and I think he wasn’t on this planet in that respect. So I think a lot, a lot in that process of what we’ve done, I think the project drops next month. Metal heads. Yeah. I, yeah, I see that I’m actually super excited about it.
You know, you’ve talked about yoga being helpful for you. Do you find in creating music? What gives you peace? You know, it’s kind of a broad stroke, you know, question, but I guess what gives me peace is watching these two girls, my cooking and doing stuff. So far, I didn’t think would give me as much comfort.
You know, it’s just, you know, saying I’m, I’m about to be a grandfather, you know, you know, I just spoke to groove whiter today and I said, do you remember when I called you? When chance was born, I was on the mobile. I cry my eyes. I got, oh my God, my daughter told me no, it’s my daughter. It’s like, I don’t know the kids, but I had a daughter, you know, and now she’s about to give birth, you know, it’s due tomorrow.
And, by the time this goes out and he said, he said she will be on the planet. And I just might note really quick. My daughter is getting married, which makes me feel really old for one thing. So I know how I, you know, not in the same, you know, but kind of in the same, our head space is kind of in the same spot, you know, the same spot.
I mean, you know, I think that, well it gives me these pieces. We’ve maneuvered ourselves. I know you guys is, my wife has a rock. I mean, an unbelievable pajama company called Sammy’s dreams. You check it out, which ridiculous, but just the way that you adapt to your environment. And you’re looking at like artsy since island creating this all made in Thailand.
It’s I think it’s about that. And our beach on an incorrect me. So the music, you know, journeyman was the F you know, the first album that was made in silence, and he was at the back end of that scene. So you don’t need to make an album about trauma. You need to make an album about celebrating the sun when that’s that album.
That’s what the journey man is, is you’ve got to this point and it’s, it’s an album that’s for me up there. I mean, Thomas will always be timeless because it’s, you know, it’s, it’s political in the way that it, in the way that it’s technology coinciding with the time. And it’s all of that at that Axion. But whereas journeyman pound for pound, it’s actually got more ballads on it.
It’s actually got more song. It’s got more structure. It’s got more, but it’s obviously 25 years later. But thinking about journey monies that we’ll use as gentlemen in five or 10 years time, you realize this is silly songs, as soon as someone plays. And I think that’s what creative space does. If you there’s a quote.
I always looked at quotes and I thought spike Milligan has a great quote. He’s a very famous comedian in England. And he said on his grid, we were playing charades on a. And we had to put on, you know, we had to guess who this person was and where it is. This guy didn’t get in. He was English. We didn’t understand that.
He was, he was like, who he’s he’s English, he’s comedian. He goes, okay, he’s got famous gravestone. And you know, it didn’t realize that is famous to this gravestone or tombstone says, I told you I was curly. You know what I mean? I’ll tell you I was, I was sick. And I think one of the, I think that’s really funny cause it’s, it’s a beautiful antidote, but I think one of my qualities is a truthful idea.
Less than the honesty of time. I could, well, imagine that being on my team stock for beats, which way it’s not going to be another 30, but a truthful idea, less than the honesty of time. So if you create something that you really truly believe in, they will last it’s like that’s what jazz is. Jazz is wild.
Can listen to name, move by Coltrane. It never gets old. I can listen to it. Two miles from India. I’d never get sold. I could listen to. So Pam Athenee over and over again, you know, first circle mini ano you know, Scott, so many because he’s sitting salt space and being creative. It’s about doing that. So from a physicality point of view, hiking, the mountains, meditating up in the mountains, getting in the lake, floating away.
You know, I had this wonderful experience of, you know, I’ve, I’ve got a video that I still haven’t edited together yet. And I dunno, I just, it just didn’t get right into it. And it’s how ironic is it that I got two divers that live in, in a village where I live in forget, and there’s from Switzerland, there’s two divers, really good divers.
And we carried, you know, 4k on this. All the air tanks, just get into this lake and fill me swimming around with a weighted belt, just to make it a drift video, because the drift, you know, I was in a family’s lake that was this there’s this Kiwi famous lake. And he’s like, you’ve got to check this place out.
And we went up there with a drone and we started filming with his drone and his, and it’s just, this made his little tadpole swimming in this lake from above. But it’s like looking at a Pyrex station it’s mirror. And it’s ironic because when I created that piece of music, it was about addiction and wanting to go super high, you know, got his paper bowl, all the turban and shores.
And I put the boat in the water and I blow it. He goes way, way from the land, just take me somewhere peaceful. And he finally gets to its highest point, you know, off head off my head in the middle of this lake where he can’t see any shoreline. And it’s just still. And then the vocal comes in right in the crescendo adrift.
And one little bit of wind, she just catches you and brings you back, brings you back to the shoreline. How ironic is it that I get to shoot this video? And I’ve, I haven’t edited some amazing for each me under war and you know, the words written on paper and the dissolving in the water. But the idea of having the, in the time having the scene, I’ll go back to Thailand and I’ll sit with zero T and I’ll just, you know, me and Kim we’ll edit it.
We’ve got all the parts. I mean, and I’m like, he’s like why? And he’s just festering is when I go and look at it now it’s like sound immatures in your mind of how you put it together. And it’s re it’s really beautiful because. Because he in sobriety as opposed to, you know, a lot total sobriety sobriety, that’s way off, it was, well, this idea of the idea of having this beautiful piece that brings me peace, because I can go to the center of that lake, see all of the shoreline, just flow with a drifting, my cans going, you manifesting this.
Listen, it sounds incredible. And we need to make that video happen. We have to make that video. Have it sounds unbelievable. You know, you have all the notable collaborations and, you know, your career. Is there anything that stands out as notable or a period of time, maybe in your career that, that just says that was it for me a career highlight something like a collaboration, someone you worked with, maybe that you would write.
Barry was incredible carers. One in the hip factory in New York was incredible. You know what she cares. One walk in, this is a guy who was in on the bridges over, you know, walking in the studio and I’ve, and I’ve written this piece of music we played for this, you know, and he was, I listened to the carer’s one track.
And I’m like, what a piece of music, what a track, you know, way ahead of its time. You know, I’ve been, the battery thing is really important because again, manifestation, I got played for the studio, from his mom’s house to the center, you know, it was on the, we just finished his first album, you know, Mel Gaynor, simple minds, world-class band, huge, a massive band.
Mel gain is the drama. Mel was having a big change, I think already been voiced at the time. And I’ve got his studios in. Sounds cool. You know, come and check it out. Maybe you want to, you know, on that first floor is Barry’s picture with a Trilby, 1977. He made space oddity in that building. So the idea of being in this place, a little sort of like body was here yet.
Yeah. You might spend so to here, that’s why the pictures down, it’s got a plaque outside. You don’t see it. And then gain barely, you know, through fax correspondence we’d had, and, and, you know, there was an eight week period where he came to the club and he wanted to hang out and they won’t lift them a load at the blue note while he listened this music’s blew his mind.
Of course, earthling came, which really enough to celebrate this week. But the influence of German based music on earthling was prolific, but the idea of writing a ballad for him and I’d wrote it over a weekend, Just that this fascinating experience. And I woke up with a record, may the next summit next to me with this unbelievable poem, completely forgot that I’ve written it.
And my handwriting’s pretty mental as a graffiti wise or capital letters. And it was painful all night. I don’t remember Bowie came in the first thing that he sparked up and it looks at play for like, are you going to send him? He couldn’t say anything. Cause the duke anyway, by we just carried on smoking.
Anyway, are you ready guys? And he went in the booth at the back of the studio, three windows and went in there and started smoking, started filling up a smoke and white gorilla coming through the mist singing and, and, and that, and that then, and there was truth. And I think that that piece is what, you know, as, as one of the darkest and most beautiful pieces of music I’ve ever done.
Which follows mother on Sandra returns. So now, you know, a very political moment because it was something that you believed in. I mean, it’s actually one 60 BPM. It could have been in your own basement at any point, but I was just like, no, I’m going to make a it, you know? And, and, and he said, you know, I really admire that.
You just sticking to your guns, you know, he so wanted to do with the investment. I’ll do anything. No, I want to do a pilot. Oh, one. You know, lo you know, and we did that and he, and he loved it.
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I have a question. It just came to me now, as we’re talking about, you know, these moments and,, on clubhouse, I shared a stage with you and Virgil Virgil to me had a big impact on me. I don’t know how well you knew him, but just your thoughts on, on him. Just not on this planet. I think, I don’t know if he even knew it.
I think he knew in the end. It wasn’t just good glanced by it. No, no. It just, you know, the conversations that I had with him and, you know, I think in the club, I think it was on sell them. Jay, tell him what you told me. Tell him the story. He’s real, real. I’ve never met a more humble human being. I don’t think he’s human.
I think he’s of another species man of another kind and the prolific, you know, I’ve spoken a year earlier about my heart condition and not once did he ever say, Hey man, on me, I’m going to die. I’ve got cancer of the heart. Not once. I mean, what kind of man does it take to be that humble? You know, I’d have this PVC at peculiar vascular condition for very long time and it comes and goes and you know, and once I knew what he was, you can kind of okay, you manage it.
You kind of okay. So you don’t cane it and you, you exercising the yoga and you open your heart up and you’ve got, this is, and you’ll all come through an old one maybe, and they’re clashing. The drum is not in time, you know, and it’s quite common with athletes. Apparently know it’s weird, I’m the athlete.
But I found it really real knowing that he had this thing that he kept so close to excuse the pun to his heart, but even doing the show. And he said to me, come to Paris and do the show and me and Coco and Mo and Mika came, Mika went there and he, they, they looked after us and he was so into the label.
It was like, you’re sowing to the I, of that metal heads. And, you know, tell me about the mixed types. Tell me about chemistry and tell me about the, you know, and he’s listened to chemistry mixed, and I think what happened a year, a year and six months before that was he posted some off-white training.
Metal heads, tin box. And I’m like, everyone got freaked out. Like I cannot compute new generation. Do not understand the fact that he unboxed. And we spoke a lot about the Trojan horse and I’ve always been a big believer in the Trojan horse. If you can get inside the Trojan horse, you can wheel the culture through and you can get someone else to carry it.
Let someone else do the heavy lifting. You know, the idea of having culture in the front of a major fashion icon and let them notice culture. And for the record he said, I want it noted that Mel has, is part of that culture along with hip hop culture and crisis, along with TaeKwonDo and martial arts and all Chicago martial arts scene before the patent, there’s all of this really intricate stuff.
And Luke APR Stokes, geezer, you know, hearing DAS, I manage that. I said, look, I’ve got some amazing music. And Benji got, you know, God bless Benji. Benji was, you know, it is to this day, you know, virtual Ryan that without shadow, without, because he knew everything that you wanted, you wouldn’t have seen as Benji and Benji said, we’re going to make this work.
And the idea of head spinning involved, culturally, I just can’t thank the universe and him enough, you know, we’re in London, we’re going to go and see. I mean, we’re in the window of bond street, LV into the record box and this and the USB in the bag. And it’s, it’s insane and going to Paris and seeing it on Vail was a massive moment.
I think they’re putting a film together now, which is going to be insane because there’s some really good out of Dallas Virgil. Again, tell us Jake, tell us that story. He was fascinated with rec centers, the arts of the rec center in the modern age he loved and all that. And I think that the impact would like our reiterate to the very beginning of this conversation, about 30 year disparity.
He was very much about that. He was very much about our head. He was, you know, any is ego-less is the, I’ve never met. Anyone has got no ego and he actually does not have an ego at all. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating how his brain on every level it could control a brand several through WhatsApp to having the conversation just gets it done.
You know, the ability to the, how he works, which to Joe, just tell him we want to do how we’re gonna do it. And bam, I’ve got this. Okay, cool. Is that cool? You know what I mean? And it just fascinating Brian and I think the yeah, I will always him and all these other things that are going to come out have come out.
I think future generations, universities, whether it’s the highest of all accolades. This guy is, is, is by far one of the w you know, for me, some black Jesus telling you man, to me, he was a true icon. And just personally thinking about sharing space with you and him, and then he passed away just a few weeks later.
It’s just, it, you know, it’s mind blowing to me. It’s, it was well, that particular, not that clubhouse because I was really reluctant and then obviously rude was on there. And I didn’t realize, you know, Jeff, you know, I’ve got to know after this was like, man, this is like, it was, it was a mind blowing even because he’s like, you know, virtual is going to jump on.
I mean, at the position he was in, in, in the world to jump on for an hour and a half. Yeah. It’s just, it just blew my mind. He’s like, you know, like he’s not just fleeting. He just came on and, and laid it out. Yeah. And, for me, I’ll, I’ll, I’m indebted to the man and. And I think, you know, we just dedicate to the album here.
So I want to mention that because of the album, the start of no regret comes out in may beautiful Dan temple, 1 27, 1 55, and a push, you know, tracks that could sit between you and me and angel and timeless quite comfortable. And if you never heard the album, you go, it’s part of the album. Right? Same thing.
The idea of time travel, you know, going through, you know, three decades of music for Chicago, Chicago house, you know, and that was my, yeah, that was my, where I CA I cut my teeth on Chicago house back in the day, that was a track on the album called brushstrokes, which is like Cleveland walkers on Volkers, which is Chicago, like three crazy mad vocal mail, killer, shuffling, mad.
And then you got like lady Blackbird and you’ve got like green seat pain. You’ve got like Tom Misch and your goal is, and I think it was, it was the album that, you know, Pete signed the album peaks on after 26 years sign this album, you know, it’s like Simon people forget that, you know, Tommy became a famous DJ, but people forget, Pete song was an eight iron man and still is.
And all man at a record company, it’s not a lot of records anymore. It’s now 360 records and he signed this new album because he felt robbed, you know, that second album, because he knew he couldn’t sell mother. He was up against so many people. I mean, they made a film about it, right? They made was very terrible film, but the books great to kill your friends.
There was, there was the author. It was, you know, the, the writer, John Nevin was the international marketing director. I love the wrinkles at the time. It was a story of a new American sidecar meets a record. And then the names changed, but I am DJ rage, the guy that makes this Opus, we great second album that no one gets to listen to.
Um, you know, this, this an avail that doesn’t do anything for 14 minutes and that’s the end of shoulders job, you know, I wish he was picked on, you know, the record company was crazy. I mean, it was insane. It was, it was mad times in the Nazis. But fast forward, this is a very, very prolific project because it’s just effortless.
It’s, I’ve just left. I’ve just left the gravity wheel, man. I’m like, I will nothing to prove nothing to. I might in the realms, man. I’m just, I’m out in the wash go, man. I’m good. I’m in dimensions. I can, I can get to enjoy, you know, people like going, oh my God, this happens like it’s, you know, you, you know, you need a degree in music.
So kind of listen to these, like, you know, go into this into mother or the journeyman coverage. The coverage is kinda like going to watch an opera. You know, you’ve got to be a music maker or you’ve quite got it. You’ve got to wait for some more years to pass before you can understand it. It’s like, I didn’t like red wine.
I didn’t ever used to like always kind of like both of them a little bit. You know what I mean? You, you, you it’s with age, you get, you get, you know, and that’s, that’s where I’m at the label metal heads deals with that’s the prison. Like now, young kids, you go gray coat. There you go. Before you get to me, you got to get through bays, you got to get some gray cards.
You’re going to get through state digital. You got to get through, you know, so that’s what I love about the idea of, of, of what metal is and why he was so important to Virgil. Going back to the point, you understood the idea of crew, the idea. It takes a village, you know, the,
say crucible of ideas of melting ideas that are galvanized. Through these young people, well, the icon it’s, it’s, it’s branding and its truest sense. It’s how you feel when you see it. You know, people have tattooed it, you know, on their body. Like literally I’ve seen people with Bella head stabbing and I’ve seen some really bad things.
In fact, I’ve obviously this is a really bad share tattoos. Don’t worry about it. But I know, I see some really, you know, I’ve seen some really weird fan art with my face, but you know, the icon is the icon, you know, you know, no one is bigger than the music not mean. Or Travis, Scott lady, I don’t care what you’re making.
No one is bigger than the music. And you know, the demograph, you know, metal as would have been in America would have been different thing because the demographic is state to state. It’s just ridiculous. We’re a tiny island, you know what I mean? But I love the idea that. It’s really weird because now it’s more than ever.
It’s becoming this, this revitalization of the label of jungle and people, and all these new kids are like, oh my God, you know, you know what? My dad turned me on to your music and, you know, played, he leads on, on Saturday and I did a solid two hour set and just kids are like, oh my God, my dad took me to this music and you’re playing cutting edge music.
It’s integral. It’s important. You know, speaking to that, you know, the current state of electronic music, German base specifically to me, it sounds almost the same as it did in the nineties. Like, do you agree with that? Or am I missing something 30 years? Love disparity we were making, I could play. I mean, I can see through the veil, I can see whether I’m listening to software turning or really bad plugins, or, you know, you haven’t really patterned this.
Right. You know what I mean? You. the fact is living in as a culture and people are making really great music and it sounds like it’s it’s current and it’s like, okay, please cook about 30 years ago. Well, that’s because the nature of the beast of where we were, where we were making it then, and we we’ve given it a really good timeline, but it all comes back to us, which is brilliant.
It comes back down to that thread, right? It’s like the old Testament, the book of the Maccabee, whichever way you cut it up as what it is. And I love that. And I, you know, I think we’re at movements in Detroit and Danny book playing back to back, and that’s going to be very interesting because I’m going to be dropping some Detroit bang as like, what did he just shot straight out?
Like, did he really drop that against a really ridiculous, the MB track, you know, with gray coded, you know, and that’s what it’s about. It’s about, you know, getting out of the comfort zone. You know, I can’t, I actually can’t believe that I actually enjoy it as much as I do. You know, still, you know, I’m like 56, a hurtling towards you.
Don’t really like what, you know, it’s crazy. My daughter loves music. My, you know, what thought was about to give birth whatsoever? My bosses is great. You couldn’t be an Eve any bedtime in life, really? So yeah, it’s good. Life is good enough that, you know, it’s been, I just want to keep practicing into it.
So I get a lot older and, you know, as long as I can. And, and I, you know, I think the one thing I will leave you on is that, you know, I just signed timeless, you know, last year to new Regency. And I’m just, I’m just waiting for, I’m just finding, we’re looking for a broadcasting. You know, I think the cue to draw is here.
You know, I think I’ve written my greatest work ever with me and James subjective created two soundtrack albums of signed three albums to the soundtrack. Six episodes are written, you know, Steven Grimey’s a main lead, you know, I have written and Virgil was the first person to read. Virgil was the first person to read CNA tempers.
And I still have the, the correspondence between me and him, where it was just like mind blowing emojis for like two days. Cause he was reading, going back from Chicago to Paris on two legs. And he said, this is going to split the atom. And I, and I strongly believe that those words that he said kind of gave me on, cause a lot of, you know, scared broadcasts, like.
You know, it’s like, well app and when you make time, it’s, didn’t there. You know, people didn’t get it at first and then pleats on when I get it, you know, they’re there, it’s, it’s probably the most prolific story, but, you know, sending biopic of my life, but a beautiful three stories, all intertwined and it remarkable piece of work.
So, you know, that’s, that’s what, that’s what my end game is directing those six episodes being left with the control, finding a broadcaster and new Regency, you know, Regency or not fucking around Regency or, you know, at Astra revenance, you know, and that, and now moving into this TV, I’m, I’m hoping that we can find a good broad customer moving forward.
I mean, America will be out of the question I think, but you know, maybe there might be HBO. Maybe there might be something, but I think the fact that America is looking at British culture again, could be interesting because of what’s on the top boy and different things, but you have a prolific story within this.
You have a great story of a boy who’s mentally. Trying to find his way. And that’s what this is about. So, so, so I’ll leave you on that note unless there’s anything else? No, no, no, no, no, listen, Goldie, I can’t thank you enough for making time today. Glad we actually made this happen and it was profound. I mean, there was so much in there that, so I thank you very much.
All right.
